i dont think the sox came out of this in any better of a situation than before they made the trade because frankly as yerfatma put it, alex gonzales sucks. as for crisp, ya hes a decent center fielder but to get him they gave up a good reliever, (which will come back to bite them if any of their releivers get injured, esspecially timlin who is gettin old) and marte which will also come back to haunt them unless the ever less physically fit Mike Lowell somehow shoots back to the cream of the crop in terms of third baseman which not many people would bet on That's certainly a lot of "what ifs" you got there, BB. What if a meteorite falls on David Ortiz while he's out one fine evening star gazing? We do not have an equally clutch backup DH in the farm system! Chaos! Mayhem! I don't know how Red Sox Nation slept last night knowing that! There's a reason there are in-season trades. There's no way in hell you can have a durable, viable, big-league ready replacement for EVERYONE sitting in your farm system for the "what ifs" on the older players, on the star gazers, on any of them. They've got a weird glut of middle infielders and likely, they'll trade Graffanino in the next couple weeks. They've still got a backup in Kevin Youkilis who can play third. The Red Sox bullpen, oddly enough, is sort of stacked. Right now, if they don't end up trading Wells, they've got 7 starters (Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Arroyo, Clement, Wakefield, Papelbon). If it's status quo in April, Arroyo and Papelbon will likely end up in the pen with whomever they go with out of DelCarmen, DiNardo, Foulke, Hansen, Timlin, Seanez, and Tavarez. So Timlin "getting old" shouldn't be catastrophic or biting anyone. Like I said, not psyched about giving up Marte, but they got themselves behind the 8 ball a month before Spring Training and they weren't just going to get Crisp for nothing.
The trade, according to the Boston Globe this morning, moves Marte, Shoppach and Mota for Crisp, Riske and Bard. So we'd be getting a catcher and reliever in return, also.
It seems to me that Red Sox fans should be dancing in the streets over this deal. I am very high on Marte, but in this deal the Sox flip a high prospect with minimal ML experience for another high prospect whose shown success at that level. Additionally, as jerseygirl rightly pointed out, the Sox are dealing from a position of some depth (3B) and filling two holes in their lineup -- CF and top of the order -- in one deal. On top of that, they are ditching a good reliever who was hurt last year for a very good reliever who was not hurt. I know Shoppach has drawn interest from other teams, and I don't know too much about Bard, but from the outside this looks like a Red Sox slam dunk. The only explanation I can see from Cleveland's perspective is a salary issue, since this deal creates a hole without filling any. Even if they snag Michaels from Philly, these deals don't make too much sense from a strictly-on-field perspective. 72 phone calls is a good indication that the Sox thought this was their only good option, and by all appearances that is right. What a huge coup... it has to be the good luck Theo brought with him when he got back on board.
Crisp is a good player. I am not sure why Cleveland would trade him. The AL Central is the toughest in MLB. Cleveland will someday come to regret this trade.
As far as I can tell, nothing is finalized yet and the deal won't happen unless the Indians acquire a replacement outfielder. That may be my denial shining through, as I would hate like hell to see Coco go. I sure wouldn't say he was 3rd or 4th on the Tribe outfielder depth chart - he's second behind Grady Sizemore. He makes some sweet plays. He has been consistently underrated by Tribe management, and I'm not sure why. They offered him just a bit more than they offered Ben Broussard, which must have been something of a slap in the face.
What a huge coup .300, 16 HR, 69 RBI, 15 SB, .810 OPS (5th best on his team, 62nd best in league). for a corner outfielder. yeah. what a huge coup. *yawn*
Compare the figgers:
Last year, [Crisp] hit .300 with 16 homers, 42 doubles, 69 RBIs, a .345 OBP, and a .810 OPS (on-base percentage plus slugging) and was named best defensive left fielder by the Hardball Times. He played left rather than center because the Indians have another young talent there in Grady Sizemore. Damon hit .316 with 10 homers, 35 doubles, 75 RBIs, a .366 OBP, and a .805 OPS last season.
He'll be a CF this year and his 2005 numbers were close to Damon's. Plus he has a bit of an age (and price) advantage.
what a huge coup. *yawn* Ninja: my comments, and use of the word "coup," were not intended to be a pointed reference to your specific comments above - the expression was a coincidence that I didn't notice until going back over your observations just now. Having said that, I do think you may be looking at the deal in the wrong way. Looking only at Crisp's numbers from last year, I agree that the acquisition is good but not great. However, when you put it in the context of Boston's position -- looking, this late into the off-season, at no good options in center field OR at the top of the order -- this is a pretty big deal. Being able to fill both needs with an above average fixture is a big accomplishment (assuming, of course, that the deal DOES go through), especially when you consider all of these: 1. In getting Crisp, the Red Sox did not have to compromise their pitching staff at all (in fact, they probably improved it) AND they didn't create a new hole anywhere else in their roster; 2. In Crisp, the Sox get arguably a defensive UPGRADE from last year, without losing much, if anything, in offense. 3. In Crisp, the Sox get younger. Crisp's numbers have steadily improved over his four seasons and he is only 26, meaning he has much growth and productivity to come. 4. Crisp will cost roughly $10 million less than they would have spent on Damon or any other equivalent outfielder. Big coup. I stand by that statement. What would Boston do if they didn't get Crisp? Then you'd REALLY be yawning. For now, you may want to reserve that yawn for the Sox's new shortstop... or the Indians' Crisp-replacement.
guys, the sox dont need a center fielder. we have the rookie anderson to take rowands place. anderson will do a great job on the field and at the plate. REMEMBER WHEN HE HAD THE 2 HOME RUN GAME LAST SEASON?
On pace for 324, huh?
Red Sox, not White Sox. It helps if you... Oh, I don't know... read the damn thread. Least you could do was mouse over the link.
The indians have some questions about Mota's shoulder. Let's hope it doesn't keep this deal from happening. And now Theo is back as GM. We need to settle all of this drama before pitchers and catchers report.
It may be posturing by the Indians to try to get a better deal now that some outlets are looking at this trade as a win for the Sox.
