I also agree with The Casual Observer that McNabb, with the right training and exercise to keep in shape, will be 100% next season and be a whole lot better. I also hope that he starts scrambling a little more or he is going to get sacked after sack after sack.
I have had this discussion with many in the past, and it is hard to honestly evaluate a black quarterback without some people considering it racist, but here is my take on the issue. It seems most of the high profile black quarterbacks have something in common, they just happen to be great athletes. Whether you are talking about Vick, Culpepper, or McNab the greatest attributes they possess are strength, speed, throwing arm and overall athleticism especially as it applies to their ability to run. Unfortunately, although that is a nice attribute when a quarterback is in trouble, the fact that a quarterback is in trouble in the first place bodes terribly for a teams chances at a championship. If your quarterback has to scramble regularly, or runs for substantial yardage, during a season you are not likely to win a Superbowl. It is a sign that the team has problems. Even John Elway lost a lot of superbowls until the time he stopped relying on his athleticism and started acting like a quarterback. It is no coincidence that the Minnesota Vikings with Culpepper had a dismal record. Now, with the same players, have won six in a row because Brad Johnson is at QB. It is not because Johnson is white, it is because he is a better QB. I am no fan of Terrell Owens but lets face it, he got fired for telling the truth as he sees it. As a star receiver he knows what the QB should be doing. This is not a black or white issue. It is just a fact that the greatest contributions a QB makes to his team have little to do with athleticism or a strong arm, and more to do with leadership, decision making, and the ability to read defenses. The success of a team depends on the key position of QB making it through the season without injury. Vick, McNab and Culpepper are great athletes, and may all prove themselves someday to be more than guys who can run and throw, but until they do they might as well play another position. Joe Montana or Peyton Manning may not run a 4.5 forty or have the strongest arms in the world but they know what the position of QB is all about. Even if Manning could run like the wind, what owner would want that investment doing so? Vick is an exciting player to watch, and after his knees are gone and he can no longer scamper down the field, he may get a chance to prove what kind of QB he is. Until then, the best defense against him is to allow him to throw and stop chasing him. Doug Williams won a super bowl, why because he played quarterback and threw when it was time to throw and when it was time to run he handed off, to John Riggins (a white fullback go figure). It only proves its not about race but about abillities. White men can jump (see winners of olympic high jump) and black men can play QB ( ie Doug Williams). It is possible to say McNab is an average QB on a good team without being racist. Its may be possible that its just the truth. Frankly I prefer to blame the coaches for allowing an athletic QB to be exploited without addressing the issues of why he has to constantly scramble when he should be handing off or getting rid of the ball.
Train wreck, now I get it. Funny, thanks lil. Sorry...a bit slow on the take today.
Fran Tarkenton was one light-complected brother.
McNabb could've avoided this whole issue - which is relatively benign given its source and subject matter (Not scrambling is a disgrace to black people?!?) - if his entire response was: "I don't scramble as much because I have an enormous hernia and running makes my balls ache. Seriously, it's like offering them to a room full of hippies as hacky sacks. And they're all wearing steel toes."
In case some of you were wondering what took me so long to post here. The delay was due to me trying to figure out how in the hell i could be in agreement with hater 187. but when it comes to this bs, i couldnt agree more. Any time someone says "they" referring to a race and saying basically that "alot of times they bring racism on themselves"?you have to understand that this will offend some people. whats funny to me is some of you actually cant figure out why its offensive. Its almost as if he is saying "if you werent Black/mexican/spanish or what have you, then you wouldnt have to worry about racism being directed towards you". In haters neighborhood maybe "thems fighting words". In my neighborhood it was(growing up). Maybe its not in yours.people are different. how the hell can someone tell someone else what offends them? To me thats just like saying "if you wernt black, we wouldnt have tied your ass to a pick up truck bumper and drug you around until you died". Thats racist! Im actually a little worried that more people here didnt agree with hater. but hey, maybe that says alot about some of the members here. There have been alot of threads dealing with,involving,or just mentioning race latley. its getting ridiculous. If you don't want to talk about race, there's a pretty easy way to avoid that posted by rcade at 6:49 AM CST on December 15 Who the hell joined spofi to have race related arguments every other damn day? Rcade maybe you have a point. Although race has been mentioned on 3 of the last 5 threads i've commented on in the past week."Ron artest wants to be traded". "Top 10 point gaurds". Now this one. maybe admin should begin take some action. if you see a thread begin to turn into a fucking train wreck like this, maybe you could post a generalized comment discouraging the topic. or maybe you're to busy getting drawn into the"my team rocks, your team sucks" bullshit. i.e.... That has to be the worst taunt I've ever read, Desert Dog. The Eagles play the Cowboys twice a year. And they just lost both times this season. Watched any sports lately? posted by rcade at 9:58 AM CST on December 15 p.s. so in the past 7 years its the eagles 14 and the cowboys 2?your right, your taunt was better. now can we talk some sports, or due i have to biotch slap some of you crackers back to reality?(see,racism is never funny when it is directed towards you). Get it?
GROUP HUG! Who has the lyrics to Kumbyah?
"I don't scramble as much because I have an enormous hernia and running makes my balls ache. Seriously, it's like offering them to a room full of hippies as hacky sacks. And they're all wearing steel toes." "... and they won't bathe and they smell like patchouli oil and they won't shut up about the fucking Grateful Dead ..."
...maybe that says alot about some of the members here. Or just maybe, you too are jumping to conclusions and implying others must be racists if they have a different view from yours.
Who the hell joined spofi to have race related arguments every other damn day? Don't want it? Don't go there. Seems simple to me. maybe admin should begin take some action. if you see a thread begin to turn into a fucking train wreck like this, maybe you could post a generalized comment discouraging the topic. So, let me get this straight: you're suggesting that admin monitor and post a "nuh uh" whenever the subject turns to race. Is that it? Or is it only certain remarks about race that would be verboten? Or a certain quantity?
u can't make a man smarter by beating him. Apparently you have not heard of the military's method of "wall to wall counseling" with "dimensional lumber". It is a quite effective method of "attitude adjustment"!
lil brown bat, I agree totally. That was my exact point on another thread, however, i want to talk sports, hence joining "sports" filter. And its not hard to see a race related off topic arguement brewing. Scroll up, its pretty easy to see where this thread derailed. Please note the huge picture of a large train that has left the tracks. If he has the where withal to post that pic, surely admin can suggest sticking to the topic(not to anyone specific) just in general to hopefully discourage meaningless non-sports related bs. I've seen it done a few times to less offensive posts. I've also seen where admin asked that personal attacks please stop and try to stay on topic.
STLcardinalfan, Allow me to simplify this for you. Its my opinion that a few white guys that tie a black guy to a truck bumper, then drag him to his death are racist. What do you think? Its also my opinion that a person who says some black people bring racism on themselves is most likely a racist. Of course they bring it on themselves, how dare they be black right?
RZA, would u consider yourself a racist person?
I am going to vehemently disagree with Morgan Freeman and everyone else who thinks that bringing up race contributes to our racism problems. The reason why we have a black history month is because in fact black history has not been incorporated into American history in any real way. It is the same reason that they have black literature classes. The chances of you reading some great American writers that are black in an American Literature class are not so good. Talking about racism and race doesn't cause the problem, it just reveals the problem. For instance, several people have discussed that they think racial problems aren't that big of a deal in this country. I disagree. If you don't talk about it, how are you going to discover where the differences lie. So, for someone who thinks that the racism isn't huge, maybe we could discuss the disparities in employment, education, housing, and health care that differ dramatically by race. Then, maybe they can explain to me why, in light of those differences, race is not a big deal anymore.
I am going to vehemently disagree with Morgan Freeman and everyone else who thinks that bringing up race contributes to our racism problems. Disagree all you want, but that's not what Morgan Freeman said.
lil brown bat, I agree totally. That was my exact point on another thread, however, i want to talk sports, hence joining "sports" filter. Well, here's the problem: there are legitimate sports topics that are also inextricably limited to issues of racism, or sexism, or what have you. Any discussion of Title IX, for example, is both about sports and about gender discrimination. Also, I have yet to see anyone who tries to shout down discussions of race, who complains loudly that there's too much talk about it, actually engage in any honest discussion (as opposed to name-calling) about it. Look, no one likes to deal with smelly garbage, but racism and its consequent problems are our smelly garbage, and sometimes it rears its ugly head in sports. And when I hear people who haven't engaged in honest discussion on racism whining that there's too much talk about it, I'm reminded of a lazy teenager who whines about all the work that he has to do, but who hasn't actually carried a single sack of smelly garbage to the curb. No fair whining until you've done the work.
bperk: I am going to vehemently disagree with Morgan Freeman and everyone else who thinks that bringing up race contributes to our racism problems. lbb: Disagree all you want, but that's not what Morgan Freeman said. From the article: Freeman notes there is no "white history month," and says the only way to get rid of racism is to "stop talking about it." I don't see how I mischaracterized what Freeman said at all.
Its my opinion that a few white guys that tie a black guy to a truck bumper, then drag him to his death are racist. What do you think? Question not worthy of an answer. Its also my opinion that a person who says some black people bring racism on themselves is most likely a racist. Ridiculous conclusion. Of course they bring it on themselves, how dare they be black right? Sounds like you feel there's something inherently wrong with being black? And thanks for simplifying things for me.
What I dont understand is why it is okay for RZA to call white people crackers, but if a white person made a racial slur to him it is unacceptable. bperk, what do u mean black history hasnt been incorporated? What in American history do they point out as "white people's history", so to speak? It is AMERICAN HISTORY and everything that happened is taught.
the don: it isn't okay, but his point was to annoy you as some of the more subtly ignorant comments you thought were innocuous bothered him. you're wrong about american history: it's written by the winners in every nation and this one is no exception. STL: what exactly to minorities do to keep racism alive? everyone's taking sides on this statement, but no one's explaining what they mean by it. i like LBB's analogy about the garbage. it works. i didn't post this link to stoke any race-riots around here. i just thought "good for mcnabb" that he stuck up for himself. my general opinion about race is that it doesn't matter to you and you don't think it should matter to anyone else if you've never had it affect you firsthand. that's not to say you can't have an opinion about it, but i think with an issue as personal (literally meaning related to an individual's personal identity), you've got to try and hear out everyone without yelling over them. you'd think someone like mcabb who's accomplished so much as an athlete might be beyond being labeled a successful "black" man and could just be a successful man. i think the fact that we're not there yet means we HAVE TO keep talking about it. ignoring it at this point would be sweeping the elephant in the room under the rug. i will say this. compared to some of the race problems in european sports, we're way ahead of the game.
bperk, what do u mean black history hasnt been incorporated? What in American history do they point out as "white people's history", so to speak? It is AMERICAN HISTORY and everything that happened is taught. Everything that happened could not, and is not, taught. What is taught is an edited interpretation of American history that is not without bias. Do you think that if a textbook or a course is not specified as white, then it could not have any slant that may exclude Native Americans, blacks, and other minorities? Do you think that if a Native American or African American was writing the history book, it would be the same?
Don, first of all, you left out the comment i made after the crackers slur. I indicated that i said that on purpose so some of our people here can see that other people here think that racial jokes are indeed not funny. You actually proved my point about it. Thanks. lilbrownbat, allow me to direct you to the thread "why does every white kid get compared to larry bird". Read that then you can decide for yourself if i have engaged in any honest discussion about race, culture or what have you. You might also find out why i have came to be alittle overwhelmed by the topic. Also please dont mistake addressing something or speaking my opinion for whining. And you would also be wise not to compare a grown man to a teenager. That sort of indirect "name calling" might be taken persoanlly by the person you are directly addressing, then we go from maturely disagreeing to an imature, "i know you are but what am i" format thats just foolish and teenage like itself. And if you're going to comment again, please refer to that thread, then make a judgment call about wether or not i have particapted in enough honest discussion about the topic. Although you may not agree with me, you will see that there has been more than enough discussion. STLC, you make this comment: Sounds like you feel there's something inherently wrong with being black? Now being mixed Black/Italian, why would i think there is something inherently wrong with being what i am? I think we have another example of someone stating their opinion in an indirect way because they're just flat out afraid to say how they themselves feel about something. But i understand why you would be intimidated STLC. I know you have to keep the illusion of being politically correct going. I've actually seen your type on another thread. I'll give you a hint, if there are somethings you dont like about african americans, just say it. You'll get more respect that way vs. dancing around it like a politician.
lilbrownbat, allow me to direct you to the thread "why does every white kid get compared to larry bird". Read that then you can decide for yourself if i have engaged in any honest discussion about race, culture or what have you. You might also find out why i have came to be alittle overwhelmed by the topic. Also please dont mistake addressing something or speaking my opinion for whining. And you would also be wise not to compare a grown man to a teenager. That sort of indirect "name calling" might be taken persoanlly by the person you are directly addressing, then we go from maturely disagreeing to an imature, "i know you are but what am i" format thats just foolish and teenage like itself. And if you're going to comment again, please refer to that thread, then make a judgment call about wether or not i have particapted in enough honest discussion about the topic. Although you may not agree with me, you will see that there has been more than enough discussion. You mean that thread where you got into a massive pissing contest about (among other things) run-on sentences, was "honest discussion about race, culture, or what have you"? Well, whatever. But I'm referring to this thread, RZA. And no, I do not see that there has been "more than enough discussion". No one's forced to participate in it, no one's forced to look at it. But calling the average contribution on the subject "enough discussion" is horsefeathers. I've seen a lot of "discussion" on SpoFi about issues regarding race, and I've seen a lot of participants whose first remark is, "Shut up about it!" Those are the "teenagers" I'm talking about; if you don't feel the shoe fits, then don't wear it! But if it didn't strike a nerve, and you feel that you have discussed it enough, then why try to shut down the discussion of others? Just decline, stay away, go start a thread about something else. But don't try to tell other people that they should shut up because the subject's been discussed enough.
Freeman notes there is no "white history month," and says the only way to get rid of racism is to "stop talking about it." I have to totally agree with Freeman on this. I am white and my children are white and they did not know there was a difference in being black until someone at school pointed out black history month. Why can't we just teach about historical people the same black or white and not point out color. My children have cousins who are black and to them they are just cousins. That is how I want generations in the future to view things. We are all just people. History is history but mistakes are still being made if differences are still being pointed out. An another thing - an ass is an ass no matter what color. (excuse my language)
But i understand why you would be intimidated STLC. I know you have to keep the illusion of being politically correct going. I'm neither intimidated or suffering any illusions. This started when I agreed with statements by Morgan Freeman. I still do. While respecting your right to disagree, I'm obviously a racist for disagreeing with you. And please point to my "type" on another thread and how you feel it incriminates me. Frankly, I think your problem is: White people are white. Therefore, they are racists. Am I pretty close?
You know something brownbat, i figured you for someone that was reasonable, you're proving otheriwse by mentioning the least important part of that thread. Why would you not mention the other 8 posts i had on the topic of race, culture and the like? What the hell is wrong with some of you veterans here? Did that make you feel better? Do you have to constantly try to prove yourself cool, witty or otherwise right all the damn time? I was certain you were a little more honest than you're making yourself out to be. I certainly didnt expect you to agree with the things in the other thread, however i did expect you to be honest and agree that myself along with a few others addressed the topic of race and culture indepth. I dont think i said, "shut up". Yet another misleading statement. All i said was lets stick to the topic and please stop trying to make things about race. This guy was probably a fan of a different team. He didnt say Mcnabb is no good because he was black. He didnt say mcnabb was overrated, as rush limbaugh* indicated. And then you generalize everything by saying: Rush Limbaugh inadvertently in bed with the NAACP. I'm lovin' it. posted by lil_brown_bat at 7:21 PM CST on December 14 The entire NAACP? Come on man. You bring the enitre group into it. You know what you're right. You're the man. Fire away. If you have an opinion, does that mean where ever you work holds the same opinion aswell? If you think racism needs to be discussed, then discuss it man. I would like to see how you can help with some of the negative things african americans still face. I still cant beleive you mention having "honest" discussion, and then say all i talked about on the other thread was run on sentences. Talk about a lazy teenager whining.
STLC, im 50% white. So your question is, do i have a problem with 50% of myself. The answer is no, i dont. You're seeing things that are not there. His comment was "some"... You chose to pounce on his statement. People who react as you did, not he, are the problem. Your reference to the KKK speaks volumes about your tolerance for other thoughts and perspectives especially when they disagree with yours. Do you support the KKK? Do you have a problem with people that are against the KKK. Has the KKK ever been guilty of killing any of your relatives? Do you have the same perspective that they have? And most importantly, do you feel that "some" african americans, mexicans, native americans, asian americans bring racism upon themselves?
You know what you're right. You're the man. Sometimes, I even amaze myself.
Do you support the KKK? I just can't imagine how you ask this question based on my post. Go back and read the context, where it was directed and why.
RZA: brownbat, i figured you for someone that was reasonable Where in the happy hell did you ever come across something that supported this conclusion? The one thing I love abour Our L B B is she's as unreasonable as I am.
It took me a while, but I finally figured out that yerfatma is really my twin, separated at birth.
Hmm, I did not know you were female LBB. In that case, you're the woman! Now I feel like a big bully. Discussing certain topics with you both makes me feel like i'm being jumped into a gang. You both have had me ready to break this keyboard and monitor a few times. I havn't been this upset with a mechanical device since my Beyonce blow up doll went on the fritz.
bperk, all i can say is that when i was in history classes, we learned about all significant American events, regardless of race.
OK again I'm ready to get tossed under the bus for this one. As important an issue as race is, I think in this country it obscures another issue. Class and economic standing is what's really important in this country. Have black people got a raw deal? Sure they have, but the poor white kid in rural Kentucky or Indiana or urban Chicago or Detroit have got a raw deal that's just as bad. I really wish people would see that race is an issue that the people in power use to divide us, then reap the rewards that America can offer while we're all fighting amungst ourselves. Black people the enemy isn't white people per say and white people the enemy isn't black people. If you want to be pissed at someone be pissed at corporate executives that lay off workers while taking a pay raise. Be pissed at your government for reforming bankruptcy laws for the average person, but gives corporate wellfare to large multinational companies that are in the process of sending YOUR job overseas. It's all about money in this country and everyone except the people at the top are getting screwed.
You make a valid point about rich vs. poor. However thats not always the case. For example, I bet Michael Jordan doesnt catch alot of racism directed his way, but look at how Allen Iverson, ron artest and terrell owens are though of as bad seeds, trouble makers and such. Granted they have some attitude problems, but i dont think their issues would be discussed as much if they were white. Here is a great example i heard someone mention. NBA teams are majority black, NHL teams are majoirty white. For years fighting has been considered a part of the game in the NHL. You miss 5 minutes of the game if you fight. If there is a fight in the NBA, you get suspended for atleast a few games and you get fined heavily. I use these 2 sports because they are at the oppisite ends of the spectrum when it comes to race disparity. Another example, Ron artest is assulted during a game, he doesnt know if more cups of beer are coming at him, so in the confussion he thinks he sees who did it, he goes into the stands to defend himself (at that time he had just been shoved in the face by wallaceand he walked away). He gets suspended for a year. Ty domi gets assulted by a fan who accidently falls into the penalty box while leaning on the glass. Was the fan irate and out of control, sure he was. Did he kick the glass out and throw a full plastic cup of beer on ty? no he didnt. ty domi hits him with a few jabs. Nothing came of it at all. Ty was defending himself. Fans run onto the court in detroit, jermaine o'neil defends himself( the same way ty did) he gets criminal charges pressed, fined and suspended from work. Why? explain it? Is fighting ok in a majority white sport because they grow up with violence? No, young black men are suppose to be brought up in a violent culture right? isnt that the stereotype? W hy can 2 white men kick the shit out of eachother on national TV in a professional sport. On some of the same networks that air basketball games. And its ok. TO fights with a former teamate and he should be hung. Jermaine O'Neil does the same exact thing as domi, one gets fined,suspended, charges, the other gets nada. Last but not least i offer these threads. Please note the comments on the thread about the fan running onto the field and taking the ball from bret farve. Notice the majority of the comments(not all) are similar. They all thought that farve or another player should have, blasted,knock down,mame,otherwise bitch slap the idiot that ran onto the field. but in contridiction, observe how harsh the majority of the people here were towards artest and O'neil. Keep in mind, farve never got touched at all with anything. the guy that came at farve wasnt menacing or threatening in anyway. The guys that came on the court in detroit had fists up ready to go. This is what im referring to. some of us are being racists when we dont even know it. Racism is alive and well in america. and its alive and well right here on spofi. I'll list the thread names incase the links dont work. detroit brawl thread http://www.sportsfilter.com/
comments.cfm/3819 additional thread about artest(one wasnt enough like TO threads) http://www.sportsfilter.com/
comments.cfm/3830 Farve thread http://www.sportsfilter.com/
comments.cfm/5398 Please dont attack me with BS unless you look at the difference in the threads.
Sorry no links, just copy/paste url if interestd.
